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+--- Thread: My Right To Speak Freely (/Thread-My-Right-To-Speak-Freely)
RE: My Right To Speak Freely - UnitedsRedArmy - 15-02-2010
(15-02-2010, 06:06 PM)Noucamp99 Wrote: Gentlemen. It's good to see that a little calm has descended, as it looked like it might get a little out of hand. Great to see that you're all expressing your right to freedom of speech.
I've not been able to post all day, as the company internet has broken. I've had to work for a change and believe me, that was dull!
This has to be one of the best threads for a very long time - just look at the number of posts and the short space of time. Nice one.
I have been a member of the supporters trust for a very long time, but one thing I detest is where people try to ram their thoughts and beliefs down other supporters' throats. What is the point? It really will not gain anything apart from more opposition to the Trust.
I did understand that the supporters' trust sellers around Old Trafford were instructed NOT to force the G&G campaign onto anyone and it is likely that those that tell you that you aren't a United fan are just jumping on the bandwagon and trying to earn themselves a few quid on the back of it all.
I do think that the G&G campaign has been a success, but there has to be a point that it acclerates and moves away from the historical colours of Newton Heath. Our newbie is absolutely spot on with the point that all those wearing the G&G then queue up to spend their pennies in the megastore or the concessions stands. They are not listening to the idea behind the campaign - to stop lining the Glazers' pockets. But there's the rub. You stop doing that 100% and then what? Empty ground, or maybe half-full. Less revenue, maybe more debt? Hmm, this all needs much more careful thought, for sure.
When the Glazers 1st took over, I cut off my nose to spite my face and stopped my One United membership and stopped going to OT for 1 season. It wa a token protest, but who noticed? Who saw I wasn't there? Only me and my (long-suffering) other half! I hated it, but stuck to my guns. I am not a member this year, but that is for financial reasons.
I am hopeful that one day, the debt can be erased completely and that the Glazers do leave the club in the hands of people who truly care about the football club. I do not think that the Glazers are good for the club. Ticket prices have increased; concessions stand prices have gone up; there have been cutbacks inside the club, with breakfasts, etc taken away from staff; there have been redundancies.
This debate will run and run, there's no doubt about that. I'm not sure I've made a point in all this waffle, but I have changed my sig back to red and white! I'm not old enough to remember Newton Heath, lol!
Like you two seasons i stayed away from OT as a protest, i really dont agree with the hurt Glazers in their pockets part, that was a joke, all it did was not put money into the club again.
I am not saying the likes of MUST etc are bad, i really think SOME of their members are passionate about what they are doing and good luck to them i hate the Glazer situation just as much but i will not protest under Norwich colours we are reds stand up and be proud of that red shirt its gone to hell and back for its place in history, people have died for that too, so why we hide behind Newton Heaths Colours now when we have problems is beyond me, its should be a rallying call for all the reds of United to stand by the red flag now not scared to admit that they dare not mention it.
One of our battle cries "RED ARMY" Shout that and watch them comes in their thousands too from all parts of the globe as well to help, now people are confused they really dont know who or what they are anymore so most stick to middle ground and follow the majority only because its easier.
Yeah the G n G is a novelty but it cant last, its causing too many problems we all know that now.
URA
RE: My Right To Speak Freely - Vazza - 15-02-2010
THE Glazers will come under increasing pressure to sell up at United with City banker, Keith Harris, ready to tempt the Americans with a £1bn offer.
The lifelong United supporter has spent the last month courting financial backers and is now confident he can put an offer on the table by the end of the season.
But with money no longer an issue, the biggest obstacle will be the Glazers' willingness to sell.
A source close to Harris said: "They have given no indication that they will sell and it is impossible to know what they will accept until they are approached, which they haven't been yet."
It is becoming increasingly apparent that Harris' hopes of a buy-out will have as much to do with fan power as funds.
With the Glazers so entrenched at United, £1bn alone might not be enough to tempt them to sell, having bought the club for £831m in 2005. Anti-Glazer supporters now hope a series of protests from fans will tempt the Americans to accept the cash that is on the table.
But having weathered a hailstorm of abuse when originally buying United, the Glazers have proved as resilient as they are unpopular.
It is thought that it will take something more drastic than mere protests to convince them to sell, with fans being urged to hit them in the pocket.
A boycott on season-ticket renewals would do that - but there are no guarantees that there wouldn't be more fans waiting to snap up any unallocated tickets.
But it will take a uniting of the various supporters' clubs to intensify the pressure on the Glazers.
Fans' group goals
It is understood that talks have already been held between the Independent Manchester United Supporters Association (IMUSA) and the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST) in a bid to combine forces for the common goal.
The anti-Glazer feeling has only intensified since the release of the club's financial figures last month.
Only the world record £80m sale of Cristiano Ronaldo enabled the club to post pre-tax profits of £48.2m, despite a record year in which turnover was up from £80m to £91m.
Repayments of £42m on the £509.5m loan taken out by the Glazers to buy the club have proved a massive drain on resources.
While £500m of bonds have since been issued, it has hardly quelled the unrest among supporters already infuriated by rising ticket prices.
With the concerns over debt confirmed by the financial figures for the previous year, MUST contacted Harris, who is renowned in brokering buy-outs of football clubs.
The executive chairman of investment bank, Seymour Pierce, has gathered together a consortium of leading businessmen, dubbed the Red Knights, to put together the funds to dislodge the Glazers.
"We don't know if the Glazers can be made to listen, but there is serious intent on the part of people who have support in their hearts," said Harris.
"The Glazers are playing with an icon of football, one of the most respected brands in the world, and it is in danger. If these rumblings become a revolution and fans stop going - as difficult as it is for them not to go - and the pounds stop coming in, there is real peril."
Talks are still ongoing with the Red Knights and Harris hopes the growing unrest among fans will finally be enough to bring about a takeover.
The source added: "The bonds issue seems to have tipped fans over the edge. United supporters in the financial world are really angry about it.
"If fans stop buying season tickets it will have an impact. It won't make the club less attractive to potential buyers because they will know fans have stopped coming because of the Glazers and will return.
"This is not an overnight process. It will take time. For now it is crucial that fans come together under one cause."
But with money no longer an issue, the biggest obstacle will be the Glazers' willingness to sell.
A source close to Harris said: "They have given no indication that they will sell and it is impossible to know what they will accept until they are approached, which they haven't been yet."
It is becoming increasingly apparent that Harris' hopes of a buy-out will have as much to do with fan power as funds.
With the Glazers so entrenched at United, £1bn alone might not be enough to tempt them to sell, having bought the club for £831m in 2005. Anti-Glazer supporters now hope a series of protests from fans will tempt the Americans to accept the cash that is on the table.
But having weathered a hailstorm of abuse when originally buying United, the Glazers have proved as resilient as they are unpopular.
It is thought that it will take something more drastic than mere protests to convince them to sell, with fans being urged to hit them in the pocket.
A boycott on season-ticket renewals would do that - but there are no guarantees that there wouldn't be more fans waiting to snap up any unallocated tickets.
But it will take a uniting of the various supporters' clubs to intensify the pressure on the Glazers.
Fans' group goals
It is understood that talks have already been held between the Independent Manchester United Supporters Association (IMUSA) and the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST) in a bid to combine forces for the common goal.
The anti-Glazer feeling has only intensified since the release of the club's financial figures last month.
Only the world record £80m sale of Cristiano Ronaldo enabled the club to post pre-tax profits of £48.2m, despite a record year in which turnover was up from £80m to £91m.
Repayments of £42m on the £509.5m loan taken out by the Glazers to buy the club have proved a massive drain on resources.
While £500m of bonds have since been issued, it has hardly quelled the unrest among supporters already infuriated by rising ticket prices.
With the concerns over debt confirmed by the financial figures for the previous year, MUST contacted Harris, who is renowned in brokering buy-outs of football clubs.
The executive chairman of investment bank, Seymour Pierce, has gathered together a consortium of leading businessmen, dubbed the Red Knights, to put together the funds to dislodge the Glazers.
"We don't know if the Glazers can be made to listen, but there is serious intent on the part of people who have support in their hearts," said Harris.
"The Glazers are playing with an icon of football, one of the most respected brands in the world, and it is in danger. If these rumblings become a revolution and fans stop going - as difficult as it is for them not to go - and the pounds stop coming in, there is real peril."
Talks are still ongoing with the Red Knights and Harris hopes the growing unrest among fans will finally be enough to bring about a takeover.
The source added: "The bonds issue seems to have tipped fans over the edge. United supporters in the financial world are really angry about it.
"If fans stop buying season tickets it will have an impact. It won't make the club less attractive to potential buyers because they will know fans have stopped coming because of the Glazers and will return.
"This is not an overnight process. It will take time. For now it is crucial that fans come together under one cause."
source: Manchester Evening news!
RE: My Right To Speak Freely - Red4ever - 15-02-2010
One thing for sure this thread has certainly generated a lot of interest. Its good to see that the forum is healthy
The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. We will not know the real debt situation as just in politics everyone adds their slant to an argument to try and win you over to their side.
The idea of G&G scarves is one visibly way of showing the Glaziers that there is strong feelings out there. It has generated a lot of media interest.
However to boycott the shop or the burger stands harms no one. I find that you can hardly get to the front of the queue or into the shop on match days so if you didn't spend money there it would make no difference, someone else is waiting behind you.
To stop buying tickets or renewing season tickets is also futile as there are so many people waiting to get tickets for matches.
The Glaziers are in so much debt that they probably can not sell unless they make a substantial profit. Therefore it is in my opinion very dangerous in the current financial climate to try and suggest that true supporters stop paying money into the club. We could very easily weaken the club to such a state that the banks step in and take us down.. No one will want to invest unless they think they can make money
Personally I will still be wearing my red scarf. I had a red scarf when I was a child, long before I ever had a shirt. I dont think I could go to OT without it.
RE: My Right To Speak Freely - UnitedsRedArmy - 15-02-2010
(15-02-2010, 07:49 PM)C Scott Wrote: One thing for sure this thread has certainly generated a lot of interest. Its good to see that the forum is healthy
The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. We will not know the real debt situation as just in politics everyone adds their slant to an argument to try and win you over to their side.
The idea of G&G scarves is one visibly way of showing the Glaziers that there is strong feelings out there. It has generated a lot of media interest.
However to boycott the shop or the burger stands harms no one. I find that you can hardly get to the front of the queue or into the shop on match days so if you didn't spend money there it would make no difference, someone else is waiting behind you.
To stop buying tickets or renewing season tickets is also futile as there are so many people waiting to get tickets for matches.
The Glaziers are in so much debt that they probably can not sell unless they make a substantial profit. Therefore it is in my opinion very dangerous in the current financial climate to try and suggest that true supporters stop paying money into the club. We could very easily weaken the club to such a state that the banks step in and take us down.. No one will want to invest unless they think they can make money
Personally I will still be wearing my red scarf. I had a red scarf when I was a child, long before I ever had a shirt. I dont think I could go to OT without it.
Well said calm reason and discussion is always the way really, like you my red shirt means the most to me, i maybe be passionate about that but when you have had guys dying for that shirt, it has to mean something even in this modern world, its why we remember the babes every year, is part of our history and a big part too, like i said my argument was never about people protesting, just the right to protest as REDS thats all, it was just because other silly people said the wrong things that i said i will not change now and to be honest, its not just me either.
As for the Glazers i agree they are so tangled up in the club moneywise, i really dont think they can go anywhere until a big portion of the debt has been settled, i think even if they wanted to sell, they really cant right now but the future who knows.
Season ticket strike wont help it will just move out one set of supporters and replace them with another set.
No matter what our concerns and differences are, the club must survive that is paramount. so we must find a solution that management and fans can agree on, not sure what that could be?
URA
RE: My Right To Speak Freely - Rattylad - 15-02-2010
Greed is the reason Manchester United are in this predicament lets not forget why the club was sold ! Greed over the stud fees of a racehorse ? whoever was right in the dispute between Fergie and the magniers is another matter but neither put United 1st before their own pockets and sadly the money men when push comes to shove will look after their own interests 1st. The Redknights consortium reminds me of the Michael Knighton episode one man with faceless backers that didnt show up in the end I was at the match when he came onto the pitch b4 kick off doing kick ups so ill reserve judgement on any consortium untill we see something legally binding outlining the conditions and proposals I want the Glaziers out but i dont want united to fall foul of a group of buisness men who can put us back in the same position as fergie vs magniers after their first difference of opinion.
PS. sry if this sentiment has already been stated in any other thread im just too lazy to to check through
RE: My Right To Speak Freely - andrewcmufc - 15-02-2010
wow, ura this thread is really gaining interest
RE: My Right To Speak Freely - UnitedsRedArmy - 15-02-2010
(15-02-2010, 09:49 PM)andrewcmufc Wrote: wow, ura this thread is really gaining interest
Good sometimes its nice to debate things, even if you don't agree at least something is said and all dialogue is good anyway, its better to be known for having an opinion than just be a sheep right?
RE: My Right To Speak Freely - Vazza - 15-02-2010
u said its ur thought! ..
now u expecting to agree
LOLz
XD
RE: My Right To Speak Freely - andrewcmufc - 16-02-2010
(15-02-2010, 10:07 PM)UnitedsRedArmy Wrote:(15-02-2010, 09:49 PM)andrewcmufc Wrote: wow, ura this thread is really gaining interest
Good sometimes its nice to debate things, even if you don't agree at least something is said and all dialogue is good anyway, its better to be known for having an opinion than just be a sheep right?
yea, leeds fans dont usually have an opinion
RE: My Right To Speak Freely - Bennthered - 16-02-2010
I'm a red but the g&g for me is to show that im unhappy at the way the club is being run, and want something done about it! not the fact that im lining anyones pocket!
so i will keep my green and gold avatar and be proud of it! (even if it is like a 5 yr old did it!)